investigativevoice.com

By Stephen Janis

Irving Bradley has been a Baltimore police officer for nearly 30 years. Half of his tenure was spent in the department’s elite homicide unit, where Bradley tracked down killers for more than 15 years in one of the country’s most violent cities.

Just four days into his retirement, the 55-year-old lifelong cop agreed to speak with Investigative Voice and share his thoughts about crime, punishment, and the fine line between life and death on Baltimore’s mean streets. This is the second half of the interview.The first half was published Monday.

I.V.: Does it take a toll, the ongoing grind of violence?

I.B.: When I first started, you go to an autopsy you’re like, I can’t deal with this, I’m not going to able to eat, But after a while you say, I’m hungry let’s go get something to eat It’s a job, you get used to. You got a job to do, you go out and do it and get it done.

What about informing loved ones that their relative has been murdered. What is that like?

That’s one of the toughest things in the world. Even though their son shouldn’t have been born with his record and the stuff he was into, and he has beaten a murder charge or a couple of murder charges and you say, man, what is he doing out? But it’s always tough to tell any mother no matter how no good her son is; it’s always tough to tell any mother. I’ve gone on next-of-kin notification and they start yelling at me before I can say a word “What do you want now, you all are always harassing my son, he didn’t do a thing, and he was here.” And I say 'Ma'am, when was he here?' And I’ll say, Ma'am, is your son such and such'... you gotta get all the vital information. 'I’m sorry, ma'am, we got to be the one who tells you but your son was shot and he didn’t survive.' Then there’s a moment of silence and then they start screaming. You can’t get anything else.

What do you think when you see all these young men dying?

I see living conditions and situations that lead to trouble. I see young men that have a lot of kids and the judge has said you have to pay child support or we’re going to throw you jail. They don’t think they have any options and the way they think they can get things done is through violence and being in the game. And I ask them I say why you don’t get out it and they say it’s either me or them.

In other words, I kill them or they kill me. So I’ll ask them, why don’t you just get out of the game?, And they say, 'How I’m going to take care of myself? and I’ll say, you ever hear of a legitimate job? And they say, 'Ain’t nobody going to hire me.' You hear a million stories. I grew up in this city; I always kept a job, or a summer job.

But do you think there were more opportunities for you?

I think back in the day there was a little more opportunity; somebody would hire you to do something. But some people say, 'I don’t want to work at McDonalds' and I say if they’re paying you a salary, it’s better than standing on the corner looking over your shoulder for the police or contemplating robbing the corner store. They just make a bad decision. Like picking up that gun, bad decision. If you think about it for ten seconds, you probably wouldn’t even do it.

Has anyone ever expressed regret over making a bad decision in the box?

I’ve heard that. They’re like wish they had thought about. It happened so fast. They’re hot-headed. Like the 5-year-old little girl...it’s a street fight but someone had to go get a gun. So you got your butt whipped, maybe you win the next time - head up, fists. Naturally they don’t be going to the range they get they’re shooting for television so they’re always shooting sideways.

Is there a difference between a stone cold killer and a person that made a bad decision?

You mean what does a killer look like? They get immune to it, they’re get used to getting away with them, and it doesn’t bother them. They have that coldness to them. I always wonder what they’re really thinking.

Can you tell when people are lying?

Yes, one of the things is movement, don’t look you in the eyes, being somewhat agitated, saying ‘Man, you already asked me that same question.’ Or ‘I don’t know nothing.' Then I’ll say, ‘You like basketball?' 'Yeah.' 'Who’s your favorite team?' The Bulls.' You see you do know something, so don’t tell me you don’t know nothing. '

What’s the best approach, when you’re interviewing a homicide suspect?

They watch television; they already know nice guy, bad guy routine. I say, 'Look, I don't know you, don’t know me. You already know what I want to know, you know why you're up here. I don’t want to waste your time, I don’t want you to waste my time.' Sometimes they come through, sometimes they don’t. But there are other ways to get to them. We have their records, we know who they know, girlfriend, baby’s mamas. So tell them we we need to go to such and such address and pick up some evidence and they say 'Man, you don’t got to go over there,' and I’ll say, 'Let’s talk then. That baby mama isn’t going to welcome you if the police come knocking on that door because of something you might have stashed there.'

What percentage of your murder cases are drug-related?

I’m willing to say at least 75 drug-related or dispute over something, or disrespect. I had one guy who shot someone, and I asked why did you shoot him? And he said “he gave me a hard look. He disrespected me.' How’s that..he gave me a hard look.

I just shook my head. A man murdered for a hard look.

It’s almost like you can't look at somebody. Even now, I see it when I’m in my truck, I am at a light, four or five people have rap on and are looking hard, and I say, how are you doing? And they don’t know what to think. They think I’m going to look back hard. They don’t know what to do.

So what is the root of this anger on the streets?

They’re mad at themselves or mad at their parents for being born. I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth but I ain’t mad at my mom.

You ever try to talk to them?

I’ve talked to kids and say, Look, you're out in this world trying to hustle, you’re going to end up in jail, dead or poor. Show me somebody that made it through. You can’t say Peanut King or Rudy Williams, you can’t say any of them because all of them are dead or in jail. You can’t make it out.'

And what do they say?

Some of them go, 'I’ll take my chances,' or some say, 'What am I supposed to do?' I say, 'Get a job and work hard.' But until they hit bottom for real, they’re not going to change. Like I said, nobody wants to see their kids in jail as juveniles; however, if we make it so unpleasant the first couple of times they would probably never want to go back. If we made it stricter, it would make a difference.

Do ever feel like it's hopeless?

I wouldn’t say hopeless because hopeless means that you’re giving up. Everything changes...they change, and we should change. We can’t keep on fighting crime like we did 30 years ago.

So there is a limit to what police can do? What do you think should change?

We need to take the profit out of the drug game.

Legalize drugs?

They made alcohol legal and look what happened. You take the profit out of drugs and think of what would happen with the crime rate. You can legalize certain drugs and if you want it you can go to Hopkins or University of Maryland Hospital to get it, you sign a waiver. Most people say crime will pick up elsewhere, there will be more robberies or whatever, but if you take the profit out of drugs you will see a drop in crime.

I think taking the profit motive out of drugs should be seriously considered, and I think they should look into it and do a study. When you look into it and do a study it’s alright to have people with Ph.D’s but you’re going to need some grassroots people too, you’re going to people from the street, you’re going to need to get everybody in on this study to make this decision.

We know drugs have destroyed this city, but we’ve haven’t changed how we fight crime, so it hasn’t gotten any better, not since I’ve been here. I talk to new officers and they ask me an important question, 'Let me ask you, Bradley, has it gotten any better since you started? And I say, 'No, it has not. '

Communities have just been ripped down by drugs, torn down bit by bit until all you have is a vacant lot. A city of empty lots, that what’s the drug war has bought us. Pennsylvania Avenue used to be a vibrant place. And now, after all these communities have been destroyed, people say, look at all these kids coming down to the Inner Harbor doing this and doing that. But they're just looking for something to do, where are they supposed to go? Can’t sit on the stoop in your neighborhood because you’ll get locked up, so they come downtown.

Despite the fact that things have gotten worse, do you feel like you made a difference?

I feel good about myself, I know that I made a difference. You always wish that you could do more. I have some families that are happy that I was here to help them out. And some families of the bad guys that, truthfully, who used to hate me who say now if it weren’t for you I wouldn’t be alive.

I did a lot even as a patrol officer. I was creative. I mean, you have rules and regulations and we try to abide by them, but sometimes you have to improvise. Someone cusses their grandmother out again or strong arms her for twenty dollars. And you say, 'Ma'am, do I have your permission to address this issue?' And they say, 'Yes, you do.'

I locked up the grandfathers, the fathers, the sons. And now I’m working on their kids, and I say, man I’ve been around here a long time. People want to frown upon being creative but sometimes that’s what you need.

Sometimes it seems the challenges for the officers are more daunting inside headquarters than out on the street.

There are a lot of good police officers out there trying to do good, but then you see how they messed with Terry Love, very few people looked out for him, he was on his own. He prevailed, and then the prosecutors put him on the do-not-call list [to testify] and you have to ask, What were they thinking? These poples are supposed to be thinkers, then put him on the list and ruin his career.

Why do you think they went after him?

Because he filed a complaint, an EEOC complaint, with Sergeant [Kelvin] Sewell, and I think that’s why they went after him.

Is the disciplinary system broken as [former trial board chief] JoAnn Woodson- Branche claims?

Yes, it is, it is broken. Lieutenant [James] Hagin used his influence to go after Terry Love, and I’m calling him by name, and I think he’s still trying to get those guys in trouble. They’re terrible, the prosecutors...you have three senior prosecutors on Terry’s case and you have a murder trial going on with one junior prosecutor in the next courtroom. And they dug this guy up, Andre Thomas, they dug him up and brought him back.

How does a case like Love’s, where he takes action off-duty and is then prosecuted, affect the mindset of police officers?

It made me feel like I want to retire. The suspect threatened to blow up a barbershop; if you didn’t do anything and he came back and killed someone, you would be punished, in fact you might get sent to jail, but when you act to protect people you still get punished.

So what needs to be done to protect police officers inside headquarters?

We need a truly independent watch group; I don’t think the mayor should pick them or the governor or a commissioner. I think the feds should send a watch group to oversee the department, it has to be a neutral party who does not owe nobody nothing, that’s going to be the only thing that will clean this up. It’s so important. We, meaning police, all sit around and realize we should have been more forceful, and in we I mean all officers collectively should have spoken out against the system being broken.

If we can’t get justice inside the police department...how can the citizens get any justice if we can’t? How can we expect the citizens to come forward for justice if we aren’t treating our own right?

As an African-American officer what’s your take on the settlement of the federal discrimination lawsuit?

I’m glad it was settled. That’s been going on for a long time and it’s finally came to a head. I know for a fact high-ranking black officials are not happy. Are they going to say it? No, they’re just as afraid of retaliation, and you have white high-ranking officials who know things are wrong that don’t speak up.

We do all sorts of brave things all day long. You can call the police and say there’s a guy in a building with three Uzis and we’ll run in and take action. But when we see they’re treating these guys wrong, we all become chicken. We’re brave in one situation but not in others.

You served under probably a dozen different police commissioners; who was your favorite?

Ed Norris, he was a breath of fresh air. Under Norris you could be a police officer again. I remember one time he was late for a meeting in Western District and we were all like, “Where is the police commissioner?” Turns out he was busting a drug deal he saw on the way over to the station.

Under Norris a situation like Terry Love’s case never would have happened. He supported us and let us do our jobs, and I think we did better under him because of it.

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